MABE Minutes – August 30, 2023 

News & Announcements
Please bring business cards next week for the MABE business card holders

Charitable Giving Options
The group approved 2nd and 3rd quarter giving for Child Crisis Arizona and La Mesa Ministries.  Ron W was asked to coordinate visits to receive their checks. 

Question of the Day
Have you read anything recently that made an impression on you?

  • Big Magic – Honor your thoughts and ideas.  Overcoming your fear.  Using your intuition. 
  • What Every BODY is Saying – I am listening to the podcast now and noticing even more stuff. 
  • Peaks and Valleys
  • Killing [fill in the blank] by Bill O’Reilly. Jack Ryan is my hero.
  • Science fiction or military history is all I read. WWII is my center.
  • I am listening to The Federalist Papers and The Road Back to You. Great CEOs are lazy. 
  • The Gap and the Gain. I turned my daughter on to it too. 
  • I read for improving my skills and applications.
  • I don’t read full books. Just piecemeal.  Short industry reading and scripture. 
  • Soundtracks by Jon Acuff – Speaks to the soundtrack that plays in our mind. I have been able to retrain my thoughts.  I had my daughter read it as well and she found it amazing and impactful.  Also, Trust by Henry Cloud.  For fun I read historical fiction. 
  • I have tried to scale back my reading. For many years I probably impaired my sleep with how much I read.  Recently, a coach assigned me Who Moved My Cheese?.  He was trying to demonstrate to me that I spend a lot of time in the past.  A thicker one, Outlive by a doctor specializing in longevity.  It talks about the distinction between longevity curve and health curve, and the goal to get them to line up so you are not miserable in your final years.  Sadly, I have had a lot of contemporaries fall over at desk.
  • I don’t read, I listen. Company of One.  Just started.  No impact yet.
  • The Courage To Be Disliked. It is presented in the form of a dialogue.  It discusses the difference between a future aimed at a goal (past, present, future filing cabinets) vs the Freud approach (study of cause and effect).  It is hard to read, requires taking radical responsibility for your life.  It could change your life, or it will piss you off. 

Main Topic
Process of Illumination -or- How to Help People Make Decisions
Presented by David Phillips

“In his book Descartes’ Error, author Antonio Damasio explained a groundbreaking discovery he made.  Studying people who had damage in the part of the brain where emotions are generated, he found that they all had something peculiar in common: they couldn’t make decisions.  They could describe what they should do in logical terms, but they found it impossible to make even the simplest choice.  In other words, while we may use logic to reason ourselves towards a decision, the actual decision making is governed by emotion. CHRIS VOSS, NEVER SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE

I have a friend so trained to use rational thought, that emotion doesn’t come into his life.  He is still single.


When you are sitting across from a perspective client, how do you help them navigate the decision to work with you.

Why do they think they came to see you?  For me, it is a lifestyle thing.  They are kind of stuck. 


What really drives my clients?  I help to draw it out of them, what they would like to happen.  I want to keep up with my children, go on this trip, etc.  It is never exclusively about the number on the scale. 

“If we had this conversation a year or two from now, and you were to look back over all those months, what has to have happened during that time for you to feel happy about your progress?” DAN SULLIVAN

I ask them this question.  It is more concrete to look back rather than speculate.  What is this engagement about?  What has to happen to get you to spend money with me?


They will say something like back in college I was an athlete in great shape.  What happened?  Got married.  Had kids.  Life became more complicated.  I help them to reassess and realign with their goals. 


We as humans are good at looking back at the past and seeing how things changed, but we are terrible at predicting future change. 

“The default future is the future you’re living in to right now, and will continue to live in to if you remain in your old habits and keep doing things the way you been doing them until today.  If we hang up and you change nothing what does that default future look like?”


What if they haven’t had a success?  You need to be actively listening and taking notes right now.  We don’t know what we don’t know.  Illuminate that for them. 

“Until people can articulate the default future – the future that’s driving their live s- they can’t make a choice to go in a different direction.”  STEVE ZAFFRON & DALE LOGAN – THE THREE LAWS OF PERFORMANCE

Until someone can see their desired future and their default future, and feel the difference between the two, they do not have what they need to make a quality decision.  It is my job to illustrate both futures and help them decide which one to pursue.

We need to get back into the idea of feelings governing decisions .  When I began, I did not realize this was about getting their story.  If where they think they are heading is not in alignment with where they want to go, I help. 

YOU >>>

“Your vision of where or who you want to be is the greatest asset you have.   Without having a goal, it’s difficult to score.”  PAUL ARDEN, IT’S NOT HOW GOOD YOU ARE – IT’S HOW GOOD YOU WANT TO BE

If they say no to what I am offering them, it is a quick meeting.  If they say yes, at this point then I have sold them.“Money is actually spiritual energy in motion.”  It makes sense.  One can continue on the default path or change to their desired focus. 

When they come to me, their attention is focused on the default future. I try to get them to their desired future. 

I present my program and value proposition then say if you work with me, I can get you the results you want.  I ask for the transactional part.  This is their opportunity to say yes or no.  I brought them to the decision point.  But it is gonna cost money.  They will never pay more than they feel the value is.  My job is to develop the value of what I am going to help them with.  Then when it gets to the point of decisions, we can move the arrow to their desired future.  Now they are invested.  Now their attention is aimed up. 


  • Wayne Gretzky said a good hockey player aims where the puck is going.
  • The Gain Agreement > They are not committed yet and can’t commit until they know what I have to offer.
  • Can you ever go back to redo part of conversion if you think they are not there?
  • When I have the conversion, I am actually all over the place. I am the sheep dog following them around.  It doesn’t always happen in order.
  • If I counter an objection, I notice they don’t come in the form of a question (where I can answer), but a statement. Then I am back up to discovery mode.  “Tell me more about that”. Drill down to the actual future.
  • How do we bring a big goal and drill down to something more concrete?
  • Look like you are helping shed light on what they actually want because they don’t have clarity. They are drifting.
  • They are looking down instead of looking up.
  • I image it like Google Earth. You first see the whole planet.  Then you zoom in to your back yard. 
  • You want them to zoom in on their potential future.
  • I want them to zero in on default future too, so they understand why they are on that path.
  • Everybody is out there researching first. Some could be bad research structuring their bad future.  I have to present what is realistic. 
  • How do I interrupt them when they have bad information?
  • They will get lost sometimes because they don’t have practical experience. Find out what their fear is.  Bring them back to the emotional experience.
  • I always ask permission first.  “May I offer you my expertise on this?”  Because I want to debunk a bit.  It’s not just what they are reading, it is what they believe.
  • You are not just offering expertise but also what it is like to work with you.
  • Basic framework – feel, felt, found. I’ve had other clients feel the same way and this is what they did. This helps you empathize with them.  Helps them transition. 
  • You guys are too nice. Sometimes I have to ask them, “Do you think you know more about this than me?”  If the answer is yes, we don’t need to be having this conversation.  It goes back to the courage to be disliked.  Do you want money, or do you want to help them?  I am going to be busy today whether you are a client or not!
  • I have said, “It sounds like you have already made up your mind.” I am not trying to reverse psychology them.  Sometimes it turns them around.
  • How can we get ahead of this game, qualifying on the phone?
  • The answer to that would probably vary by industry.
  • Make notes of red flags where you think they may need support.
  • You need to decide how much time and energy you want to put into each client. I want it to be a good fit for our company and them so it’s a win-win for everyone.  If it’s not good for me, I shut it down.  I don’t want to waste any time. 
  • Come up with qualifying questions in advance.
  • As it relates to the sales process, you need to consider the individual and their natural self. Then give them the tools/process to make it their own.  Develop that.
  • Different markets in your business will determine that process. Before, it was speed.  Now I am a psychologist talking about the market. 
  • You are building, developing, brokering trust. You can’t give false certainty.  But if some of these things come up, they have someone to guide them. 
  • Sometimes you have to interrupt and change the conversation. You are the expert. 
  • Sometimes you know if they are not ready yet.
  • When someone right off the bat is shopping rates, they may not be the right fit. But it could also be about fear, etc.  So, it might be of benefit to have a conversation. 


  • Grow through leads/referrals
  • Grow through professional development
  • Give back within the community